DC Movie Universe and TV series

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Oh boy don't get me started.. yes the Crisis happened.. I know why it happened, it was a time that rocked my world as well as that of the entire industry and I lost Barry... and for a long, long time it seemed he would be the Captain (Mar-Vell) of the DCU and then it happened again so what are we up to 4 times or 5 sometimes I get one mixed up... although it was called Zero Hour once and Flash Point another time.. but eventually I got my Barry back, but now I lost Wally and I really got used to him.. I guess you can't have it both ways. I was a collector for years, so I know what Crisis was and tried to do, although it fails every time but only to the truly hardcore.. I will say I'm pretty much clueless on the New 52. I think they have made Batman pretty much a joke. I have a friend who's still hardcore so he let's me know my general information, I know it's a reboot to the DCU again with 52 new worlds, (and that's not a believing in a multi verse right?) but he tells me that even that is changing again.. of course.. I stopped reading Marvel when they essentially started the same thing.. how many times have they rebooted Captain America now? It just got too muddled and I got sick of it, they way they treated the long time fans, throwing so much continuity out the window. I guess I'm getting a little old fashioned lol.. I understand change happens and progress is good and etc...but it seems they are doing it at a much faster rate and for no better reason then to make money. (which I guess is their bottom line)
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DC doesn't believe in the multiverse. They destroyed it in the 80s, and only recently allowed a very limited number exist, but, with an explicit limit on the number. So, while Marvel clearly states that the MCU is an alternate reality set within the overall framework of their multiverse reality setting, and allows for crossover, DC movies and TV shows would not be a part of the multiverse, as it stands within their comics reality...
Originally Posted by futiles
Oh boy don't get me started.. yes the Crisis happened.. I know why it happened, it was a time that rocked my world as well as that of the entire industry and I lost Barry... and for a long, long time it seemed he would be the Captain (Mar-Vell) of the DCU and then it happened again so what are we up to 4 times or 5 sometimes I get one mixed up... although it was called Zero Hour once and Flash Point another time.. but eventually I got my Barry back, but now I lost Wally and I really got used to him.. I guess you can't have it both ways. I was a collector for years, so I know what Crisis was and tried to do, although it fails every time but only to the truly hardcore.. I will say I'm pretty much clueless on the New 52. I think they have made Batman pretty much a joke. I have a friend who's still hardcore so he let's me know my general information, I know it's a reboot to the DCU again with 52 new worlds, (and that's not a believing in a multi verse right?) but he tells me that even that is changing again.. of course.. I stopped reading Marvel when they essentially started the same thing.. how many times have they rebooted Captain America now? It just got too muddled and I got sick of it, they way they treated the long time fans, throwing so much continuity out the window. I guess I'm getting a little old fashioned lol.. I understand change happens and progress is good and etc...but it seems they are doing it at a much faster rate and for no better reason then to make money. (which I guess is their bottom line)
Originally Posted by B8TINGU
Marvel has never rebooted Captain America. Each Captain America #1 is a new volume, but, references each of the previous volumes completely, with all the stories and histories within them still in existence.

As of 2014, Marvel has reboot their main continuity (The Marvel 616 Universe) ONCE. Seriously. Only once. The 2008 Spider-man "Brand New Day" storyline removed Peter Parker and Mary Jane from having ever been married. The only "change" that was made was Spider-man was delayed fighting a criminal, which caused Peter to miss the wedding, and instead of rescheduling, Mary Jane decided to cancel. This, through a Butterfly Effect, also removed Spider-man revealing his true identity to the world during the Civil War storyline. But, that is it. That is the only reboot in the Marvel-616.

And yes, 52 != "Multiverse" as it is a finite amount, with very explicit rules.(To the above two lines in red, yes I acknowledged the return)

DC has the Silver Age to Modern Age reboot, since they re-used so many characters, but in such a different fashion, yes, this was an obvious need. But, that was the 50s. Then in the 60s they introduced the idea of a multiverse, and "these stories" are actually a different universe, and "these are a different" and "these...:" well, you get it. Then in the 80s, 20 years of muddied, confusing stories leads to the "Crisis on Infinite Earths" and everything except Earth-One is destroyed (Except Superman, Lois Lane, and Superboy of Earth-Two, who are kept in a utopian pocket universe, where they never age. Oh sweet! Superboy gets to stay a child forever, that can't go poorly...) Oh crap, we forgot that we removed Superboy and Supergirl from existence, but have The Legion of Superheroes based on Superboy (and Supergirl) going to the future. Hmm... And that title is really popular, well, OK, those stories are also in a pocket universe, a different one, but with Superboy and Supergirl, because, umm.. THE TIME TRAPPER (sweet name for a character to fix this) "trapped that time" in a pocket universe. FIXED! Seven years later, a cloned group of the Legion, set in yet a third pocket universe (because now we have 2 Legion titles...), a stupid Batman Year 2 story that has Batman teaming up with Joe Chill, and trying to murder Joe Chill with the gun Chill killed the Waynes with, leaving the JSA tied to WWII (no other point in DC is tied to specific years in history), well... ZERO HOUR! Let's fix the fixes, but fixier!!! This "Crisis in Time" de-aged some oldies, made the Legion people from the future INSPIRED by modern heroes (not actually visited by them) and overall, almost, sort of, kind of fixed it. Well, shit was still confusing (I know, right.) and so "The Kingdom" came out, and we learned about "Hypertime" - the idea that all realities are/were possible, but, they may or may not have happened. Like alternate realities, of a single universe, but they all are not actually happening and real, right now. OK, that's cool. I like it, pretty high brow. "You world is fiction, so, just accept it as stories and go with it." Seriously, I love this. Let's just leave it alone now. Basically, continuity errors just "ARE" and we don't need to fix them. Except... Superman could use ANOTHER, different origin story, so, let's do Superman: Birthright. This actually says, no, Superman and Lex DID know each other as kids in Smallville, and Clark did have powers as a youth, and there really was a Superboy-esque character. Well, screw it. This lead to the "Final Crisis" which lead like 2 years later to "Infinite Crisis" (cause infinite is more than final...), The removal, completely and forever of all multiple universes (pocket or complete), 3 months later the announcement of 52 universes (which have contradictory numberings), 2 MORE main story Superman origins that completely contradict each other, and Birthright, and Man of Steel... HOLY SHIT!!! WHAT HAVE WE DONE!!! OK, Flashpoint! jabber, jabber, jabber, I seriously have gotten off the train at this point (actually, I was prepping to exit a few stops back, because, who needs this). I think a Flash is killed, and somehow Thomas Wayne became a Batman for a while, but somehow it gets fixed, and Bruce is Batman, but other things change. I really don't know anymore.

So, back to the original point, this is the biggest difference between Marvel and DC. Marvel acknowledges that Sony's Spider-man franchises, FOX's X-Men franchise, and Fantastic Four franchises exist, as separate realities in which those heroes exist, alone and apart from any other supers. While the Ultimate Universe is yet another. And the entire MCU is one connected universe, movies and TV, with cross-over. All while maintaining a core, single story in their main comics. DC has its head up its ass.
Now, that wall of text is only about rebooting. Retconning is a bit different. Marvel tends to rely a little more on retcons. Take your Captain America question.

Cap dies at the end of WWII. But, there are post WWII stories... Oh crap. You know what, that was actually Super Patriot in the Cap costume. Because America needed its hero, still. So, we approach Super Patriot to be the new Cap. He accepts and does it for a few years.

Well, there are stories from the 50s, too. Oh, well, that was this guy that was so inspired by Cap's adventures that he had cosmetic surgery to look like Steve Rogers, and changed his name to Steve Rogers, and took over the Captain America persona.

Then regular Cap was found in the 60s. HE HAD BEEN FROZEN!!!

So, all of those stories still happened, and the "public at large in the universe" don't know that it was one Cap or the other. The history stands.

Yes, it is a trick to fix a mistake or error, but, the history and stories stand, and is handled subtly. DC and Image and every other comic group uses retconning, too. It is the full rebooting that gets confusing.
Ok I love it! My point exactly on the DCU and maybe I loosely accused MVU of rebooting when they have not, I agree, but you have to agree that they have Restarted the Captain America and Thor and Spider-Man and the Avengers.. and every other comic like 6 times now? *oh I know about the shadow numbering and the main point I was alluding to was the reason why I left Marvel (mainly the Mutant titles) but how many times have they tried to replace Steve Rogers.. as Captain America? Really just leave it be. I like Steve Rodgers.. or Peter Parker or Thor or Tony Stark.....anyway.. I think were sort of on the same side on this, just not in the same room...lol..


Just to be honest here I was typing this before you posted your second respond..but I think it's still stands..a good response.
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Actually, I like the way Marvel does its volumes. They tend to stay with a style of story telling and Writer/Artist combo. Captain America Volume 5 is one of the absolute best, Ed Brubaker, The Winter Soldier storyline, Civil War, Bucky Cap, all EXCEPTIONAL stories, Volume 6 was decent. A tough followup to one of the best in all of comics. Volume 7 was rough. Silly SciFi-esque storyline by a writer that doesn't like the Steve Rogers character (so, why is he the one writing it?) pretty much designed to remove Steve and put Falcon behind the shield. But, it helps the fan figure out what to pick up and what to drop.

And if a title sags, they drop it. Then 12-24 months later, when there is desire, relaunch the title. BUT, nothing has changed. The previous stories exist. So, I cannot understand why that would make you leave Marvel, but, the jumbled garbage coming from 99% of DC titles is OK...
I left Marvel as well as DC because I simply couldn't keep up.. there were too many titles I liked and too many Company Crossovers and too many spin off tittles.. Um Deadpool anyone? Yea How many times can I read the same story of the Mutants killing each other or facing extinction.. I left after deciding to limit myself to just the core stories of The Civil War and the Secret Invasion.. I kept up with just Thor for a few more issues after that. Of the thousands of comics I once owned I know only keep one partly filled long box.. which I'l be getting rid of those issues soon too.. I may keep a short box of just the best stories.. well the stories I liked any way:

Thor's complete decimation of Iron Man right after the Civil War..Ghost Riders two story Planet Hulk Tie in and My Sandman #1 (Neil Gaiman of course) The first appearance's of: Deathstroke, Death (of the Endless), Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Damian, NightWing, Gambit, Cable, Deadpool and the Demon (Jack Kirby) and I'm sure there are a few others I can't think of right now

In all if I would have kept everything over the years.. ....that would be way too much.. I'm just too impulsive when it come to collecting, I have actually rebooted my collection over the years and I just kick my self over the stuff I have got rid of. I had almost complete runs of The Avengers.. Uncanny X-Men, Iron Man, Had huge runs on almost everything else from all the Batman's stuff, Thor, Justice League, all the Spider-Man's, Wonder Woman, Mutant tittles, Valiant comics, Dark Horse, Image.. Of course I had a lot of crap too, probably more crap than anything good, but the good stuff defiantly would have made up for it.. I'm talking Original Golden to Silver age stuff sigh.. I think I'm just more mad that I let that stuff go that aI can't come back.. so my Xbox addiction started, lol.. and know look over 1500 games... when will it end..
Life goal own all retail X-Box games. My collection: X-Box: 535, X-Box 360: 1204, One: 178
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when will it end..
Originally Posted by B8TINGU
Destroy everything in a natural disaster.

I am currently subscribed to 7 titles.

All-New Captain America (I will give Falcon a chance)
Bucky Barnes: The Winter Soldier (I really wish they had left him as Cap.)
Rocket Raccoon (One of my son's books. I have not read it yet)
SAGA (This book is amazing. Image does a great job with truly unique stories)
Sonic: Universe (Another one for my son, he likes Sonic The Hedgehog, and as pretty much the entire run so far)
Thor (New series, female Thor has me intrigued enough to give it a go)
The Walking Dead (Still interested 11 years later)
Destroy everything in a natural disaster.

I am currently subscribed to 7 titles.

All-New Captain America (I will give Falcon a chance)
Bucky Barnes: The Winter Soldier (I really wish they had left him as Cap.)
Rocket Raccoon (One of my son's books. I have not read it yet)
SAGA (This book is amazing. Image does a great job with truly unique stories)
Sonic: Universe (Another one for my son, he likes Sonic The Hedgehog, and as pretty much the entire run so far)
Thor (New series, female Thor has me intrigued enough to give it a go)
The Walking Dead (Still interested 11 years later)
Originally Posted by futiles

I think I would only go Walking Dead..Bucky Barnes.. Hate Falcap.. I think it was a bad idea.. Just leave the Falcon be and make Bucky Cap if they really want to get rid of Steve Rodgers.. I think they are trying to hard to cater to everyone these days and I really think that most of the comic decisions are being made in conjunction with the movies now.. oh wait this in't the MCU thread .. um sorry.. anyway to say on that really quick I think the female Thor and Falcap is obvious, they are prepping people to see the changes in the movies.. Chris Evens said he doesn't want to play cap all the time, (which is understandable) but instead of recasting (i.e. James Bond) I think that Marvel is planting the seeds to possibly, I say that lightly possibly change the cinematic character and people won't be so agitated. Basically it gives them a choice recast to someone who looks like Chris Evens or change the story all together and rest the role.
Life goal own all retail X-Box games. My collection: X-Box: 535, X-Box 360: 1204, One: 178
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I think I would only go Walking Dead..Bucky Barnes.. Hate Falcap.. I think it was a bad idea.. Just leave the Falcon be and make Bucky Cap if they really want to get rid of Steve Rodgers.. I think they are trying to hard to cater to everyone these days and I really think that most of the comic decisions are being made in conjunction with the movies now.. oh wait this in't the MCU thread .. um sorry.. anyway to say on that really quick I think the female Thor and Falcap is obvious, they are prepping people to see the changes in the movies.. Chris Evens said he doesn't want to play cap all the time, (which is understandable) but instead of recasting (i.e. James Bond) I think that Marvel is planting the seeds to possibly, I say that lightly possibly change the cinematic character and people won't be so agitated. Basically it gives them a choice recast to someone who looks like Chris Evens or change the story all together and rest the role.
Originally Posted by B8TINGU
Actually, I will lay money that by the time next Cap and Thor movie come out, comics will be male Thor and Steve Rogers, again.

(This is based on history. Steve "dies" and Bucky is Cap, until, Captain America: The First Avenger comes out. Volume 6: Issue 1 of Captain America released same day, with return of Steve. Doctor Octopus takes over Peter Parker's body. Until the release of Amazing Spider-Man 2, which coincided with the return of Peter in the comics. Thor was dead and banished from the nine realms, only to see his return the month of the Thor movie. Nope, the comics always line back up with the basics of the movies, because the movies are the larger audience, and Marvel wants to make sure those people see the movie, and if they immediately go to a comic shop, everything matches up...)
Actually, I will lay money that by the time next Cap and Thor movie come out, comics will be male Thor and Steve Rogers, again.

(This is based on history. Steve "dies" and Bucky is Cap, until, Captain America: The First Avenger comes out. Volume 6: Issue 1 of Captain America released same day, with return of Steve. Doctor Octopus takes over Peter Parker's body. Until the release of Amazing Spider-Man 2, which coincided with the return of Peter in the comics. Thor was dead and banished from the nine realms, only to see his return the month of the Thor movie. Nope, the comics always line back up with the basics of the movies, because the movies are the larger audience, and Marvel wants to make sure those people see the movie, and if they immediately go to a comic shop, everything matches up...)
Originally Posted by futiles

Keen eye, I never put that together, I would love to think that (hopefully it will stay true) but I never say never..
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They did the same thing with the Green Arrow comic. They added the Island, Diggle and Felicity soon after Arrow got going. I have no doubt you'll be seeing some additions to the Flash comic too.



And this video talks other changes like this. Both brands are guilty of this.
Last edited 12-13-2014 at 06:13 AM by WolfWood37.
They did the same thing with the Green Arrow comic. They added the Island, Diggle and Felicity soon after Arrow got going. I have no doubt you'll be seeing some additions to the Flash comic too.



And this video talks other changes like this. Both brands are guilty of this.
Originally Posted by WolfWood37
Yes, like I said, both companies do retcons. Simple little things like, "Oh, did I not mention the island, yeah, well, he was on an island..."

Nothing major, doesn't really ruin anything, just adds to it.

It is the comic wide, story hopping, "oh crap, let's change everything" stuff that has gotten tiresome in DC. (And, I HATE the Spider-man "Brand New Day" story. Marvel's current issue is they have writers that do not like certain characters or decisions from the past, and have the freedom to "fix" it. Spider-man's writer has been recorded saying that he hates the Parker/MJ marriage, so, he got rid of it. Rick Remender (Captain America comics) has said he thinks Steve Rogers is boring, and there are no more stories to tell with that character, so, he got rid of him (sort of). But, writers at Marvel only do 2-5 years on each book, usually, so, I am halfway through Rick Remender. But, he has created some fantastic characters that probably will never go away, and he has made Zola worth reading about, again...
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/12/...Zergnet_345849

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/12/...ld-dc-universe


Links to two articles that announce the end of the new 52...partially and bring back the old DC universe including Pre Crisis characters.. The second link actually shows art work for the new ..er old returning universe.. Looks like Superman and Wonder Woman are going back to their original costumes.. Cat Woman is going back to the god awful Purple suit and some other bd looking things are going down.. good news Wally West returns as The Flash, bad news Barry Allen returns as the Flash and is stuck in Gotham??

Anyway go check them out.. let's talk..
Life goal own all retail X-Box games. My collection: X-Box: 535, X-Box 360: 1204, One: 178
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And this is why comics are too confusing...
And this is why DC comics are too confusing...
Originally Posted by WolfWood37
Fixed that for you...
Fixed that for you...
Originally Posted by futiles
You didn't see my posting in the MARVEL thread did you?
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You didn't see my posting in the MARVEL thread did you?
Originally Posted by B8TINGU
I did, but, it actually was a poorly written article that had it gone into better detail proved my point on the past. All of those weird stories, people taking over minds of others, shifting through time, Heroes Reborn, etc, all still happened.

Marvel characters still reference Onslaught "killing" the Fantastic Four, Hulk, Thor, and Captain America. Those heroes remember that time away from Earth, and time spent in the pocket reality, and the path to return. The rest of the universe remember those heroes missing. It is a big difference. Now, if Marvel does go forward with a giant continuity reset, well, that would be disappointing, since, DC has proved repeatedly that it is dumb. And, since Marvel has always enjoyed multiple, successful universes, why not just go that path. In the 90s, main universe and 2099 sold like crazy. Late 90s early 2000s, even MC2 sold well. Then Ultimate Universe has sold like crazy for 15 years. But, if they do reset, I will give Cap's new incarnation a shot, if it is good, I will continue, if not, I will stop.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/ar...ew-group-photo

Article names all the cast and characters to, including a few cast/characters not previously mentioned.

Last edited 05-04-2015 at 09:07 AM by B8TINGU.
Life goal own all retail X-Box games. My collection: X-Box: 535, X-Box 360: 1204, One: 178
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Everything I see makes me want to skip it. Frown
Last edited 05-04-2015 at 10:49 AM by futiles.

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