Captain America: Civil War discussion (with spoilers after the first post)

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I will keep this particular post spoiler free, the rest of the thread, no promises.

Captain America is my favorite comic book character. That is it. I own a copy of every Captain America comic issue, in some form (digital, print, on disc) since the first issue in the 40s. I have an active subscription. And I read the main secondary characters, and buy their books, The Winter Soldier and The Falcon/Sam Wilson: Captain America. I own multiple limited series runs of USAgent, American Dream, Captain America Corps, and Nomad. So, that being said, they were playing to a friendly audience. Each Captain America movie has held the spot as my favorite Marvel movie until the next comes out.

Civil War may be my favorite comic book movie.

I think taking the general idea of the civil war storyline, but making a unique film was fantastic.

Tom Holland is the best live-action Spider-man, ever.
I'm jealous I may not get to see it until next week.
Would you say there was any issue with representing an entire comic arc in one movie? It has been my only concern going into this.
I'm jealous I may not get to see it until next week.
Would you say there was any issue with representing an entire comic arc in one movie? It has been my only concern going into this.
Originally Posted by Obsidian Tides
As I said, it isn't the comic. If you read Age of Ultron and saw Age of Ultron, it is the same thing. They took the idea: Collateral damage, lack of oversight, fear from the populace, fear from those in "control" and spun a brand new tale. If you read the entire Civil War 6 book series, and all crossover titles, today, and then went and saw the movie this afternoon, you would have two completely unique experiences.

So, no, I do not think the movie suffers from the possible amount of content, as it only has the content intended for it. And it tells a well conceived, succinct story, in 150 minutes.

Honestly, The Winter Soldier story-arc by Ed Brubaker had way more content to draw from than even Civil War, and similarly, the Rousso Brothers (Russo?) picked just the ideas, and crafted a new story from it. If you like The Winter Soldier, you will like Civil War.
Tom Holland is the best live-action Spider-man, ever.
Originally Posted by futiles
He stole the show. The banter was fantastic.
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He stole the show. The banter was fantastic.
Originally Posted by Kaens
Agreed. Andrew Garfield tried to be witty and banter with the villains, but, it came across as douchey. Tom Holland's portrayal was perfect.
OMG!!! This simply blew my mind at what a comic movie can do. I've collected for a long time, most every company and I really do mean that, but sadly about 10 years ago I just stopped caring. Mainly due to what I thought was horribly writing and rehashed story lines, I just couldn't take it. I've loosely followed over the years as my friend still collects and we often discuss the state of the industry and such. I have read most of the big events main storylines ie; Civil War, Infinite Crisis Secret Invasion, etc.. I also know Hollywood can't cater to the fanboys every whim. Marvel has constantly been hitting these movies right out of the park. The MCU has had a few things and movies that I don't agree with or just seem out right wrong, but for the most part I'm extremely happy with what I've seen. They could have easily called this an Avengers movie but I'm kind of glad they didn't, because at it's core it was a Captain America movie. This definitely takes the bad taste of last months Batman v Superman out of my mouth. This movie took a huge story with more characters than it had in the movie and really pulled it off. There were a few things I thought they could've done just a little different, but this movie really changes the face of the MCU and I think in the long run, that may not be a bad thing. Got to head into work now, but I'm definitely ready to discuss this.
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We are going again this afternoon, so that the kid can see it. So, 3 or 4 more viewings and I will be good.
We are going again this afternoon, so that the kid can see it. So, 3 or 4 more viewings and I will be good.
Originally Posted by futiles
I took my team on Friday, wife on Sat, and I'll be taking the kids probably next week.
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I took my team on Friday, wife on Sat, and I'll be taking the kids probably next week.
Originally Posted by Kaens
I am looking forward to the BD release, so, I can sit at home and watch the whole trilogy straight through.
OK so I guess I'll start the spoilers so read on if you dare!









OK, so my official rating for this movie........ 9.8!! This one was almost perfect, let me run this down for yours to why it was not perfect and the reasons are kind of silly.. and this is also in no particular order of how it happened in the movie.

Vision: I just hate to see the Vision in regular clothes? WTF? Why was he acting so human? I think he should be a little , more Star Trek Data like, but not as corny. I think the Scarlet Which romance was a bit much... even though it really didn't go anywhere you knew it was happening.

Zemo: Why did he kill the other Winter Soldiers?

Warmachine: Still not liking Don Cheadlel as Rhodey..

Ant-Man: I was so stoked to see Giant-Man!!! Hell yea, but why did he have to move so slow??? A little campy.

Spider-Man: I hated the idea that we knew Spider-Man was definitely going to be in this movie, he should have stayed secret right up to the revile. Why are they making Aunt may so young? How the Hell did Tony find out who Peter Parker was? I guess this means Peter signed the accord?

Sharon Carter: I know, I know but I kinda of thought that the whole Sharon Carter romance was a little too soon and kind creepy...but yes I know..

Crossbones: OK anyone else think they killed Crossbones too fast? I mean he had some potential.

Iron-Man: Why did he get so upset about Steve knowing about his parents death.. I can actually forgive this one a little more but still and also he knew that Bucky has been brain washed so....but I get it he was upset. When did Tony learn to fight on par with Captain America? Ok maybe the suit really helped but still he's never been a hand to hand guy and theres no way he could've learned that quickly...these things take time.

THOR and The HULK: So.... I wonder what there stance is going to be on the accord? Probably the same as the comics?

Ok that's it fire away folks.
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They are actually tracking along the modern interpretation of The Vision. I'm not a huge Vision fan/follower, but, the last year or so has shown him wearing clothes while not fighting crime. His personality is similar. As for the romance, I just figure that was part of the fan service they throw in for each film.

Zemo, I actually liked his interpretation. He hates the new way of the world, and wants it to burn. He just needs them to think otherwise.

I can't imagine Thor will give two shits. He isn't human. He isn't even on Earth most of the time. No one on Earth can really even touch him. So, F the regulation...

Hulk, obviously, is against them, as he never wants to even be found, much less registered. And since basically the worst person on the planet to him is the face of the registration, he will never, ever, ever be friendly with General Ross.

Marisa Tomei is 51. That isn't young. And Aunt May has been played in live action shows and movies anywhere from 55-74 (yeah, that's a gap...). Since no one has ever portrayed Peter so young, I'm cool with it.
Vision: I just hate to see the Vision in regular clothes? WTF? Why was he acting so human? I think he should be a little , more Star Trek Data like, but not as corny. I think the Scarlet Which romance was a bit much... even though it really didn't go anywhere you knew it was happening.
Originally Posted by B8TINGU
Yeah, I knew it was happening cause I read this twenty years ago..


Zemo: Why did he kill the other Winter Soldiers?
Originally Posted by B8TINGU
Man, if only he said something like, "You think I want more of YOU in the world?!" If only they had made him clearly express his motivations we would have known them.

Warmachine: Still not liking Don Cheadlel as Rhodey..
Originally Posted by B8TINGU
Racist. What's wrong with Don?

Ant-Man: I was so stoked to see Giant-Man!!! Hell yea, but why did he have to move so slow??? A little campy.
Originally Posted by B8TINGU
This is probably the ONLY thing I agree with you on, but I easily dismissed it because 1. it was only second time he's done it and 2. Ant-man is campy.

Spider-Man: I hated the idea that we knew Spider-Man was definitely going to be in this movie, he should have stayed secret right up to the revile. Why are they making Aunt may so young? How the Hell did Tony find out who Peter Parker was? I guess this means Peter signed the accord?
Originally Posted by B8TINGU
Hate is a strong word. The realities of keeping Spider-Man a secret when it had to be worked out between two companies. And as I've told no less than a dozen people now, Aunt May is his AUNT, not his grandmother. He's in high school, which means she should be in her 40-50s, which is exactly where Marisa is (as futiles point out).

Sharon Carter: I know, I know but I kinda of thought that the whole Sharon Carter romance was a little too soon and kind creepy...but yes I know..
Originally Posted by B8TINGU
Yeah, they should just slow play this over six more movies. NOT! Keep shit moving, we only get a few of these a year and there needs to be story progression. This isn't a weekly TV show.

Crossbones: OK anyone else think they killed Crossbones too fast? I mean he had some potential.
Originally Posted by B8TINGU
I'm sure somebody does, but not me.

Iron-Man: Why did he get so upset about Steve knowing about his parents death.. I can actually forgive this one a little more but still and also he knew that Bucky has been brain washed so....but I get it he was upset.
Originally Posted by B8TINGU
Man, did you even watch the movie? Yeah, so in the beginning they set up how traumatic it is that Tony never got closure with his parents and it's eating him up. He's dealing with losing Pepper, the guilt of killing innocents and trying to keep the Avengers together. I can't imagine why he would snap when he finds out his co-leader who he respects has known the entire time who killed his parents and was selfishly protecting Bucky. Oh right, exactly what Cap apologized for in his letter, realizing his selfish mistake, I guess you haven't reflected on it as much as Steve yet.

When did Tony learn to fight on par with Captain America? Ok maybe the suit really helped but still he's never been a hand to hand guy and there's no way he could've learned that quickly...these things take time.
Originally Posted by B8TINGU
You must be a Cap fan. He's got no where near enough power to handle Iron Man, if anything it was ridiculous the other way. And yes, computers could easily analyze Cap's fighting style that quickly, it's not even varied. Him and Bucky are soooo predictable and brute force, they are brawlers. That was one of the things I actually liked about the choreography, Widow's style completely different and Panther's was unique (although they recycled that series of spin kicks too much I think). Maybe a decade of watching UFC has helped me but it seems really obvious when watching to me.

THOR and The HULK: So.... I wonder what there stance is going to be on the accord? Probably the same as the comics?
Originally Posted by B8TINGU
What futiles said, nothing to add here. I feel like you were just grasping as the end and losing speed.

Ok that's it fire away folks.
Originally Posted by B8TINGU
You asked.
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Giant-Man could actually be explained:

The sheer amount of science that has been written about giant monsters, ever since the very first appearance of Godzilla, which basically proves/theorizes (I am not tight enough in those particular sciences to say whether the theories are agreed upon as proofs) that the muscle mass of said giant creatures would need to significantly outgrow the structure to maintain the ability to move at the same rate and agility. So, a 3 story tall man of the exact same build would not even be able to move at all, due to the forces of gravity exceeding the muscle masses ability to move the new weight. Since Scott Lang utilizes Pym-Particles, his strength does not stay on scale to his muscle mass. When small, his strength is 100s of times more than his muscles should output. When large, the same technique could happen, muscles exceeding the output of their mass, but, not nearly enough to compensate for the pull of gravity on his overall total mass.



Or, you know, giants are slow because they somehow have to be stoppable. I mean, if 3-story tall Scott Lang could still run, jump, flip, roll, kick, etc, what in the actual fuck could Spider-man, Iron Man, War Machine, and Vision do against him?




As for Terrence Howard versus Don Cheadle: I don't know. They were both kind of OK. I think I like Don Cheadle a little better as Rhodey, but, I was fine with Howard. So far, Marvel has said, "If you are a pain in the ass off the set, you can be recast..." So, we have different Rhodes and Banners...
Last edited 05-10-2016 at 12:47 AM by futiles.
Oh, and side note:

Thor and Hulk basically match their EXACT position in the comic version of the story.

They are not in the story...

("Thor" appears in the comics, but it is a clone, and not really Thor, and Hulk is off world)
Woe woe woe.. hold up there true believers..You guys are so vicious, man I even said I loved the film and had some hokey reasons why it wasn't a straight 100. I have read the comics I did see the movie and I was just trying to get some conversation and other out looks on this, NOT get battered around like I was some fan boy crying because it wasn't just exactly like the comics. You guys need to learn to calm down a bit. Hell I agree with 90% of what you guys said. So I'm going to start over a little bit here and try again... even though I did invite this and I'll take most of what you guys said as fun.. Smile

Zemo: yes loved his version and I'm very glad they didn't suit him up or anything. Yes Keans I did hear him say that, but they still had 5 super badd ass soldiers that could've been used elsewhere in the MCU..

Crossbones: he was supposed to be a bad ass himself, but I knew since it wasn't following the comics he would get apprehended pretty quick, not out right killed..still it was a weak interpretation of him and I'm glad he's gone, although he had great potential.. but with 5 other super soldiers that we found out existed later on he would quickly become outdated and nonessential.

Ant-Man: well at least futiles gave a somewhat scientific explanation, but really this is a movie a comic book movie and I just think that was a bit hokey IMHOP.

I will take you calling me a racists as a light hearted jab at me, I hated Howard as Rhodes too.. I think he should have been played by some one more like the comic version, yes he was a pilot, but a combat pilot that if memory serves me was shot down in enemy territory at one point.. and had to make it out alive or something,, either way he was a much more stout man than Chedal. Chedals body just doesn't do it for me and his acting, he should be so light hearted, I think Rhodey is more of gruff abrasive personality, but I know movie to comic.. I'm just saying some one more like Michael Jai White would have been more my pick.. Howard's body type was right and his motivation was almost right, but I just couldn't get past his voice...

Spider-Man and Aunt May.. yes I know comic to movie two failed franchises.. needs reboot.. I actually really like both, but a little part of me hankered for an older more comic like may.. i.e. Rosemary Harris.. but hey I'm game to see what they can do now they got Peter right.. even thought Toby wasn't half bad.. except part 3 and I blame hollywood execs on that. Also I know we had a possibility of him being in the movie and two companies and secrets yada, yada, whatever... hell if they can keep as tight lipped on Star Wars or Bats v Super dude they they surely could've kept Spidey out of the trailer.. I'm just saying it seem like hollywood shows the entirety of the movie in the trailers these days.. Case in point they said they went back to reshoot Suicide Squad scenes because they used ALL the humor in the trailers. I'm just saying that is why I loved the Giant-Man revile, I totally wanted it so badly but never expected it and it was not in any trailers and then BAM!!!! GIANT-MAN!! That was singularly the best moment of the movie for me.. When I went all the teen girls were screaming and pawning over Spider-Man, so maybe that's whey they let the cat out of the bag, but I just think that would have BLOWN away EVERYONE if he was never mentioned and then he showed up...it would have been like Vader telling Luke he was his father! I think the intro of Peter Parker that's what made that ultimately have to be shown in the trailer, because maybe that would have been like.. what Spider-Man just shows up in the middle of a fight why? hmmm.. I hope you understand where I'm coming with that.

Sharon Carter: Good point man I'll take that.

Iron-Man & Cap: Yea I'ma Cap fan but equally an Iron-Man fan as well, love both characters, collected both had more Iron-Man in my collection but still. I actually still own a handful of comics I may never give up due to story. First off you have to know Cap is not just a brawler, he's actually highly regarded and proven to be one of the best fighters on the planet. He's fought toe to toe with Wolverine ( and Logan is a skilled martial artist) and he would have fought Bat-Man to an almost stand still. So Iron-Man technology I can see helping him out, but Tony has never been higher in any capacity until Cap took him under his wing and schooled him, (yes I'm talking comics) HIs suite was already badly damaged making it much heavier, but yet h e still managed to fight two of the words best fighters to a stand still? Nope, just can't believe that.

Thor and Hulk: Yea You called me on that, I knew this I was just throwing it out there for fodder and discussion.

Ok, so now can we start over a little.. yeash.. and stop with all the bricks!!...lol.. jerk!

EDIT: due to bad grammar....
Last edited 05-10-2016 at 09:13 PM by B8TINGU.
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I was completely going along with you and joking the entire time. I meant my points, but the aggressiveness was mostly bluster.
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I was completely going along with you and joking the entire time. I meant my points, but the aggressiveness was mostly bluster.
Originally Posted by Kaens
I thought so. You have never come across as anything other than nice. I just wanted to make sure, you know you just weren't having a bad day or something...lol. I have a track record for....um....being taken out of context or just misunderstood because I can be very abrupt and not realize it. I was glad to get your thoughts on it.
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I loved it. Saw it last night. My only gripe is this:

Why the hell is AntMan so slow in the latter part of the airport scene? You know what I'm talking about. That seemed so, off, from his character.
I loved it. Saw it last night. My only gripe is this:

Why the hell is AntMan so slow in the latter part of the airport scene? You know what I'm talking about. That seemed so, off, from his character.
Originally Posted by porschephiliac
See above posts...
We are going again this afternoon, so that the kid can see it. So, 3 or 4 more viewings and I will be good.
Originally Posted by futiles
I agree. We're going again tonight. Fantastic flick.

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